This one with the outside horn is a FAKE, pieced together machine.
HOW DO I KNOW?
Simple!
Lets analyze this machine and start with the actual wood box. The wood casing above is the same as the machine below (photo with the green border).
The below machine (green border photo, scroll down) is a Victor Talking Machine, table top model. The slots behind the door is actually the speaker where the sound comes out of.
The above machine is the exact same casing with the doors in the front.
The black table top on the above photo is from a Edison Diamond Disc phonograph, probably a S-19 series EDISON machine as they had the black plastic resin phonograph plate top rather than wood. It looks to me like it was placed on top of the Victor wood casing and then screwed on.
The tone arm is from the Victor machine.
The round reproducer looks to be from the Victor and plays normal skinny 78s. But it is hard to tell whether or not it is a Victor reproducer or another brand from this photo.
The Gold horn is from a European model of an outside horned machine. It is probably an authentic horn but it is not for this Phonograph. It is somehow added to this wood box and is most likely not functional and only there to fool the unknowing buyer to believe it is a outside horned machine. The horn too looks to be spray-painted Gold, which would have never been painted Gold to resemble Bronze.
The crank is from the Edison machine, as Edison and Victor cranks were different. This one sticks way out, which tells me that it was from the Edison that was a Floor cabinet model. The long crank had to reach way in to reach the motor within the floor cabinet. Therefore, it sticks way out on this Victor wood box.
Also, a dead giveaway is that the crank is held by a metal stabilizer, which never was on either machine. These are usually added when someone puts together a machine from parts that don't fit properly.
Below is another Dead give-away on this pieced together Cabinet model machine...
You can see that the motor of this cabinet model is not the orginal motor. How do I know? The crank is extruding from a new hole that the person created. The original hole is above and a new hole was drilled so the new motor can be placed into this cabinet, so it would fit and would be able to be cranked up. If you see this on a cabinet model, it is a dead give-away that something is not right! The value of this is cabinet is worth nothing. Beware!
Below is a photo of a reproduction Berliner phonograph, which are almost non-existant now. if you find one, you may be looking at a reproduction. Most are now in the hands of collectors and in museums. Some parts may be original phonograph parts taken from other machines, but none of them are original Berliner parts. Still, kind of neat to see, but still not worth anything to a real collector.
Other JUNK phonographs below. These are known as HIS MASTERS VOICE phonographs. They are made in India and Pakistan. Still being produced and sold as ANTIQUE or RARE. These machines are banged up to look old and used when they are really new pieces of junk. If you buy one of these machines, you will see and feel how cheap these really are. They come in different shapes and have a cheap tin gold horn. You can tell these machines by the water-seal sticker on the box which shows the RCA logo with the Nipper dog. India and Pakistan don't really care about register and trademark regulations and put this fake logo on their machines even though it is stealing from the original Victor (now RCA) company who own the rights to this logo.
See how flimsy and cheap these HIS MASTERS VOICE machines are!
REPRODUCTIONS CAN BE BOUGHT FOR $100 USA / 70 EURO OR LESS.
Look how cheap the "reproducer" is. If you see one of these on a phonogrpah, you can guess that the phono is probably a fake.
Below is another HMV machine with a stamped tin gold horn and decorative wood box. These boxes are made from Pine, which is cheap wood and will warp over time.
Below is another cheap His Masters Voice machine which you see alot online auctions. You can find these at flee-markets for $60. If you pay more than that for this type of phonograph, you were taken for a fool.
Another fine example of JUNK!
Another example of A fake HMV (junk).
SCROLL DOWN AND LOOK AT MORE PHOTOS OF FAKE/REPRODUCTIONS
BELOW ARE MORE FAKES AND REPRODUCTIONS FROM CHINA AND OTHER FORIEGN COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA, IRAQ, SYRIA AND PAKSITAN.
TEST YOURSELF AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND THE "DEAD-GIVE-AWAY" SIGNS OF WHAT TELLS YOU THESE ARE REPRODUCTION AND PIECED TOGETHER MACHINES/PHONOGRAPHS
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This phonograph has two horns and they go into the box
rather than attaching to the actual tone arm.
Here is the same reproduction phonograph side view.
Notice that the crank is coming from the top of the actual pine box. This tells you that the motor was taken from a hand-cranked portable phonograph (probably a German model) and put into this wood box.
Also notice the real Victor Victrola label placed onto this fake reproduction to make unknowing buyers think it really is worth more money.
Another Chinese phonograph, nice in detail but also a pieced together phonograph. The motor crank comes out of the top. The reproducer is facing the wrong way and the label is a fake Victor Victrola metal serial number plate.
What is going on with the curve of this horn? Obviously made custom for this phonograph, so that it fits. Reproducer is facing wrong way. Also, the crank is coming out of the top. THIS IS A FAKE!
HIS MASTERS VOICE is seen all over the USA. This is another reproduction made in Pakistan, Syria and India. Pine wood box, cheap reproducer and the horns are soldered together cheaply, signs to be seen when looking at these cheap imitations.
Above is a FAKE Victor metal decal. Pretty close in looks, but still not exact as a real label. BEWARE!!!!
Above is a REAL Victor Talking Machine Co. Serial number plate. It always sports the model version and the serial number of the actual machine. People tend to take these from old broken machines and will put them onto their reproductions to make their reproduction phonograph more valuable. If they say it is a Victor, then an unknowing buyer will think it is a real Victor because it has a serial plate on it... Make sure you know the difference between reproductions that sell for $100 and a real Victor that sells for $1,000- $5000, for outside horn models.
I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR PARTS SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ONE SPECIFIC PART, EMAIL ME AND I MAY HAVE IT FOR YOU. I ACCEPT PAYPAL.COM AND MONEY ORDERS.
Scroll down for more information about Fakes and Reproductions!
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The machine with
this gold horn is a FAKE
Below is a REAL Victor Talking Machine, internal horn, table top series.
Below is another junk machine that someone was selling on an online-auction site. He claims that this machine is a Victor Victrola 1-90 with an Orthophonic Reproducer. The actual wood box has a real Victrola Serial Number plate on it (see below), but if you know about Victor Talking Machines, the 1-90 was a Table-top internal horn cabinet machine, see the page below showing the 1-90. Although the horn is fairly impressive, it may be tin? Most European models and HIS MASTER VOICE phonographs had horns with designs on them.
Below is the SERIAL IDENTIFICATION PLATE that was on this wooden casing of this pieced-together phonograph. You can see that the Victor plate is on top of an area that is washed out and lighter in color from the old existing plate that used to be there from another company. Also, you can see the original nail holes from the identification plate that once was there before the Victor plate. REMEMBER: VICTROLA means a internal horn cabinet model.
Below, the seller claims that the reproducer is a "Orthophonic" reproducer. As you can see, this is not and is clearly not even a Victor Reproducer.
Below is a page of a Victor phonograph book showing that a 1-90 is clearly not the machine that this seller states... he is lying.
If you have any questions, you can
always email me... |
One sure sign of a His Masters Voice is the GREEN water decal that is on the actual wood box. If the logo is green with a dog listening to the horn with "HIS MASTERS VOICE", it is a HIS MASTERS VOICE MACHINE made in Pakistan and India.
HMV has been around a long time and is still around today. These machines are made in Pakistan and in India at schools where students learn to make woodworking and phonographs out of old parts from stripped machines. These are made to look old and unfortunatley, made their way to the USA. These have no collector value what-so-ever and they are really cheap. The horn is gold tin and the machine itself is cheaply made. If you get one, you will see how cheap they really are and you will feel like a fool for paying a lot for one.
These machines sell in India for about $40 USA money and sell here in the states for about $100. if you pay more than this, you are being taken for a fool as these are junk and not collectibles.
If you want a real antique, look for a VICTOR TALKING MACHINE, COLUMBIA, BRUNSWICK, SONORA, SILVERTONE OR EDISON phonogrpah.
HIS MASTERS VOICE has no connection with VICTOR, although, they use the VICTOR tag-line, His Masters Voice. This is a Copyright infringement, but people in pakistan and India don't care as they don't follow USA rules.
If you have any questions about a machine that you may be interested in buying, you can always send me a email with the photo of the phonograph and I can help you identify it to the best of my knowledge.
email me at:
ONE THING THAT BOTHERS ME MOST IS THAT THERE ARE DISHONEST PEOPLE OUT THERE SELLING THESE AS REAL AUTHENTIC ANTIQUES, WHEN IN REALITY, THEY ARE PIECED TOGETHER PIECES OF CRAP!
PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND READ UP ON PHONOGRAPHS BEFORE SPENDING LOTS OF MONEY ON THEM.
SURE, THE PRICE MAY BE RIGHT, BUT ONCE YOU GET ONE OF THESE, YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU WERE TAKEN AS A FOOL.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND THEN SPEND SOME MONEY ON A REAL QUALITY PHONOGRAPH WITH A HISTORY... NONE OF THE REPRODUCTIONS I SHOW HERE ARE WORTH ANYTHING IN VALUE.
THEY MAY HAVE SOME ORIGINAL PIECES FROM OLD PHONOGRAPHS, BUT NOTHING IS ORIGINAL TO THE PHONOGRAPH AND ARE PIECED TOGETHER SO THEY LOOK LIKE A REAL MACHINE.
BE AWARE!
SCROLL DOWN AND LOOK AT MORE PHOTOS OF FAKE/REPRODUCTIONS
BELOW ARE MORE FAKES AND REPRODUCTIONS FROM CHINA AND OTHER FORIEGN COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA, IRAQ, SYRIA AND PAKSITAN.
Two horns arent better than one! This is a fake. The horns go into the box rather than actually attaching to the tone arm of the phonograph. This is a piece of poop.
It also sports a fake Victrola metal label.
Some things to look for on HIS MASTERS VOICE phonographs... Green water label with the reproduced Victor logo, (dog listening to the horn), cheap looking columns, and Pine box.
Another fake, pieced together piece of poop.
This seller thinks he is being slick by listing this as a Victor Talking Machine, with a fake Victor metal plate.
Look at the nice soldering job on this. Looks like it was pieced together and the sound horn doesn't even connect to the tone arm...
Another Chinese fake reproduction. Crank coming out of the top is a dead give-away that this is not a real antique. Fake Victor plate on the front.
Fake Water label , made to look like the Victor Talking Machine Company logo and nameplate.
Victrola labels were only on the Victor Talking Machine Company phonographs that were wood cabinets with the horn inside the cabinet. if you see this label on a outside horn phonograph, then you may wonder that the seller took it off of a cabinet model and put it onto their reproduction. Why? victors tend to sell for more money, especially the real outside horn models, which are more rare now.
Check out my other pages of this website. I hope it helps you if you are new to phonographs...
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see more on phonographs,
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Please do not ask
me to appraise your phonograph. All phonographs are unique and in different
conditions. Please refer to books at your local library, online and books
available at Barnes & Noble (www.bn.com)
and at www.Amazon.com
for antique phonograph books. thanks!
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I hope this website was helpful? I would love to hear from you and know if this website helped you in making the right decisions in your phonograph search!
Also: I buy and sell unique phonographs! Please email email me if you are looking to sell a phonograph or parts! Thanks JOHN
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