EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE BUYING! page 2
If your phonograph you are looking to buy looks like this or has any of these traits, it may be a "HIS MASTER VOICE" (HMV) REPRODUCTION phonograph.
Look and learn what to look for and look at when buying.
FAKE!!! HMV REPRO!
FAKE REPRO! What are some of the signs? Can you tell?
ABOVE:
#1. Hard edged bend in the horn socket that attached the tone arm to the
actual horn.
#2. The horn is a nice brass looking horn. Brass was very expensive in the 1900's so not many had them. So this is cheap tin.
#3. The green water decal on the front of the casing. Water decals, if it has one, it is phony!
ABOVE:
#1. Cheap pin holding the horn to the bracket.
#2. Horn, covered in dust or painted to look authentic and old.
#3. Cheap tin reproducer. If it looks like this one or says HIS MASTERS VOICE on the actual casing, it is a dead giveaway that this is a HMV and a repro!
ABOVE and BELOW:
Above is an actual authentic 1907-10 Victor Talking Machine Co. - Victor
III. This is a REAL authentic Victor gramophone.
Although beat up pretty badly, you can see some differences just in the casing, reproducer and horn. The actual serial number plate is on the front of the case.
Above is another example of poor craftmanship. The speed control on the right and the brake are both made of cheap tin and flimsy.
Another thing to look for are these cheap looking columns, especially in this shape. If you see these on the casing, There is a very good change that this is a HMV phonograph. Most of them were made with this cheap style on the casing.
Another picture of the same logo on another fake reproduction machine.
Because India and Pakistan don't follow USA patent and registered laws, they use the similar Victor logo, today known as RCA. You see a dog "Nipper" listening to a Berliner gramophone. People in India don't give a hoot and use this logo, probably to make people believe that this is an authentic VICTOR TALKING MACHINE CO. gramophone. In reality, they have no connection.
What is HMV, HIS
MASTERS VOICE?
HMV is a company/trade school in India and Pakistan where they made furniture
and replica phonographs. The company is known as THE GRAMOPHONE COMPANY
LTD. which is not associated with the American company, VICTOR TALKING
MACHINE CO. or today's RCA.
Unfortunately, these machines made it to the USA thru salespeople in England and from Indian retailers. They are imported and sold by antique dealers trying to make a quick buck. They are worth nothing to collectors.
These machines are worth about $40 in real USA money, in parts. Their parts are old and pieced together, making them not worth one cent to phonogrpah collectors. The case is made of PINE wood, cheap wood. They dent and scuff the casing too to make it look old and authentic. HMV has been around for a long time. So you may find an old HMV machine but it still doesn't make it an antique. It may be old, but it is still an old piece of junk, still worth nothing.
If you are looking for a phonograph to decorate your house, you will find these to be OK. But if you are looking for something worth something and having history, then you shouldn't waste your time or money with one of these.
You can find a HMV reproduction for about $125 or less NEW, on most auction sites. I wouldn't pay anymore for one of these as these are cheaply made and won't last. The motor themselves will brake in time and most antique phonograph repair stores won't waste their time repairing these pieces of junk. Plus, repairing a broken spring costs the owner about $50 for the spring and another $50-100 for services. So it actually costs more to fix than the actual worth of the machine.
These machines are good for school productions looking for a prop in their play. I wouldn't buy one of these if you were using it to decorate because they look cheap and will make your living room look phony.
Familiarize yourself with what is real and what is fake! Go to your library or bookstore and read up on antique phonographs! The more your know, the better you will be in finding what you are looking for!
Don't get taken and spend too much money!
Warning: There are lots of reproductions out there so be aware that there are real and junk being sold. Be aware that not all sellers are being honest and want your money! The less they tell you about the phonograph, the more I would stay away! If they don't know what they are selling, stay away! Always ask questions! Always make sure you can return the item without penalty. If you question a machine, email me and i can tell you what i think. I am not a professional appraiser, but I can tell you whether or not it looks like a reproduction phonograph to me or not. In no way am I 100% accurate and make no claim that I am a expert, but I do know what to look for in machines.
If the seller tells you it is authentic, ask them these questions.
1. What brand is it? company?
2. When was it made? Year?
3. What kind of wood is it?
4. Does it have any labels or emblems on it? What do they say?
5. Can i see photos of the motor?
6. How many springs does this motor have?
7. Does it work? Does the turntable spin freely?
8. Is there a crank?
9. What is the horn made of? is it authentic part of the machine?
10. What is the reproducer say? Is there any text on the actual reproducer? Is there a reproducer (sound box)?
11. Where (Country) was this phonograph made?
12. Do you have a return policy? What are the stipulations on returns?
13. Where did you get this machine? History behind it?
Some stories you will hear from sellers to make it sound more authentic:
1. I got this from an estate sale. (Soooooo?)
2. It is old. No labels but I know this is old. (Oh really? How do they know this?)
3. Real brass horn! (More like gold Tin)
4. I got this in Europe when I was there. (Still crap!)
5. Imported from Europe (India or Pakistan)
6. Real selling price is $300!!! (Repros sell for $100)
7. This was my grandmother's and I am selling. (Why get rid of an airloom?)
8. This is the real deal! (No proof!)
9. Plays like the old days. (Never mentions that it is a replica or reproduction)
10. Real RCA gramophone! (RCA never made a outside horn gramophone, keep this in mind)
11. Has "VICTROLA" label on it. (Victrola was only inside horned cabinet models made by Victor Talking Machine Co., so this is fake! Label is fake or taken from a cabinet model)
Below is some more examples of reproduction HIS MASTER VOICE gramophones and phonographs. Read and learn.
One sure sign of a His Masters Voice is the GREEN water decal that is on the actual wood box. If the logo is green with a dog listening to the horn with "HIS MASTERS VOICE", it is a HIS MASTERS VOICE MACHINE made in Pakistan and India.
HMV has been around a long time and is still around today. These machines are made in Pakistan and in India at schools where students learn to make woodworking and phonographs out of old parts from stripped machines. These are made to look old and unfortunatley, made their way to the USA. These have no collector value what-so-ever and they are really cheap. The horn is gold tin and the machine itself is cheaply made. If you get one, you will see how cheap they really are and you will feel like a fool for paying a lot for one.
These machines sell in India for about $40 USA money and sell here in the states for about $100-400, unfortunately! If you pay more than $100, you are being taken for a fool as these are junk and not collectibles.
If you want a real antique, look for a VICTOR TALKING MACHINE, COLUMBIA, BRUNSWICK, SONORA, SILVERTONE OR EDISON phonograph or gramophone.
HIS MASTERS VOICE has NO connection with VICTOR, although, they use the VICTOR tag-line, His Masters Voice. This is a Copyright infringement, but people in pakistan and India don't care as they don't follow USA rules.
If you have any questions about a machine that you may be interested in buying, you can always send me a email with the photo of the phonograph and I can help you identify it to the best of my knowledge.
email me at:
ABOVE: This one above is definately a pieced together piece of poop. What are some of the things that you can see that tell you that it is a reproduction?
The crank is coming out of the top and at an angle. Why do you say it is a repro? Old portables usually had an angled crank. This tells me that the motor on this was taken from a old portable phonograph and placed into this round casing.
ABOVE: This label is a water label added to this reproduction to make the person believe it was authentic. I can tell you that this is phony! How? Victrola's were an inside the cabinet model made by Victor Talking Machine Co. Victrola was named only for Cabinet models and this is an outside horned phonograph. Which clearly shows that this is NOT a real Victor Victrola. The person sellign it put this label on it to try to make more money as Victor Talking Machine phonographs are a little more valuable to a collector. A educated collector would catch this in an instant!
See below for a VICTROLA explaination!
Above is a real VICTOR TALKING MACHINE CO. "VICTROLA". VICTROLAS were phonographs that were cabinet style with a horn within the cabinet.
#1. The lid covers the turntable, with the actual VICTROLA logo on the underside of the case.
#2. The horn is inside the cabinet, behind the two cabinet doors.
#3. There is a record storage place behind the cabinet doors and under the horn.
This is a real Victor Victrola.
Unfortunately, VICTROLA is used to describe all older phonographs. Sort of like XEROX to call all copiers. The word Victrola is misused when describing a machine. The only real way to use the word Victrola is for these inside horned cabinet models made by Victor Talking Machine Co. in the early 1920s.
RCA bought out Victor in 1929 and then renamed the company RCA, in which electric motor models were becoming more popular and the hand crank was going away.
Victor used the dog listening to the gramophone as their logo and then it was transfered and still used today by RCA.
ABOVE: This reproducer is a cheap tin repro. It has a tin chromed cover. If it looks similar to this, then it may be a reproduction!
If you see this water decal on the casing, it is a reproduction HMV machine.
IF the crank is angled, this is a dead giveaway that this is a reproduction!
How Do I know? Reproductions use old used pieces from junked portable phonographs and some English models had an angled crank coming from the top. If you see this on a gramaphone, then it is a HMV repro! No authentic gramophone ever had an angled crank coming from the top or near top of a case.
If the motor looks like this, with screws holding the govenor weights, it is a reproduction. Most portable motors used this type of motor. Screws too can tell you how old a machine is. These look fairly new, as well as the pieces within the motor. Probably all reproduction pieces as they can be duplicated and are usually, molded from an old piece.
#1. Inside a real VICTOR TALKING MACHINE CO. "Victrola". The logo is on the underside of the lid on a cabinet model known as the VICTROLA. #2. The lid covered the turntable and tonearm.
If it has this logo, it is a reproduction HMV.
What are some of the things that make you believe this is a reproduction without seeing the logo? Do you know what to look for?
Is this a reproduction or a real gramophone? Can you tell? What are some of the things to look at?
Why are you showing this website?
I HATE people who are dishonest and selling these reproductions as real authentic antiques. I want to help and educate those who are interested in antique phonographs.
I learned about phonographs by reading and searching the internet. There are many helpful websites online. I learned as much as possible before buying my first phonograph!
get to know more about phonographs before you buy! The more you know, the better the deal you will get when you buy a antique authentic phonograph!
Good Luck!
To see my page on phonographs, click below
PAGE 2
I hope this website was helpful? I would love to hear from you and know if this website helped you in making the right decisions in your phonograph search!
Also: a tip for people who want to sell their phonograph and have them on display at a tore or consignment shop. Hide the Reproducer and the crank as these two parts can be taken off and stolen! These parts can be hard to find and expensive so please hide them or put them in a locked case! This happens all too often!
I sell phonograph parts, new and used. If you are looking for a specific piece, email me. I may have one in stock or I may be able to find one for you too... I sell phonograph needles as well. I accept checks, money orders and PayPal too!
NEEDLES FOR SALE!!!NEEDLES: I HAVE PHONOGRAPH MULTI-PLAY NEEDLES! LOUD, MEDIUM AND SOFT TONE NEEDLES FOR YOUR ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH THAT PLAY STANDARD 78'S.
LEATHER BELTS: I HAVE LEATHER BELTS FOR YOUR GRAMOPHONE. THEY ARE LEATHER, 18 INCHES LONG AND 1/4 INCHES WIDE. USED ON ALL CYLINDAR PHONOGRAPHS THAT HAVE THE LEATHER BELT.
PATHE STYLUS: I ALSO HAVE PATHÉ STYLUS "SAPPHIRE" TIPPED NEEDLES FOR YOUR PATHE OR BRUNSWICK PHONOGRAPH THAT USES THE SAPPHIRE NEEDLE FOR PATHE RECORDS. Click here to email me
KNOBS: I ALSO CARRY VICTOR VICTROLA CHROME CABINET KNOBS. 2 KNOBS & SCREWS IN THE SET. Click here to email me
I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR PARTS... SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ONE SPECIFIC PART, EMAIL ME AND I MAY HAVE IT FOR YOU. I ACCEPT PAYPAL.COM AND MONEY ORDERS.
DON'T
BE A FOOL, GO TO SCHOOL
AND LEARN ABOUT PHONOGRAPHS
BEFORE
BUYING!!!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!
Please do not ask me to appraise your phonograph. All phonographs are unique and in different conditions. Please refer to books at your local library, online and books available at Barnes & Noble (bn.com) and at Amazon.com for antique phonograph books. thanks!
I hope this website was helpful? I would love to hear from you and know if this website helped you in making the right decisions in your phonograph search!